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"They don't hardly make 'em like him any more — but just to be on the safe side, he should be castrated anyway." -- Journalist Hunter S. Thompson
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Topic: TV Presidential Debate Debriefing
By Charley on October 1, 2004 11:16 AM

Last night President George W. Bush and Senator John Kerry squared off in Coral Gables, Florida, in the first of what promises to be a series of unsurprisingly lackluster showings.  Join the forum for some lively political discussions and tell us: How did your guy do?

Was he personable?  Funny?  Intelligent?  Defensive?  Did he harp on one point over and over and not seem to adjust to his opponent's surprisingly candid and unevasive responses?

Kerry's Web site called the debate a "decisive victory" for them, while W's Web site quickly (and somewhat defensively) pointed out that Kerry made several errors in his arguments.  Of course, all one has to do is go to the source they cited to find out that Bush made quite a few errors himself.  Nobody's perfect.

Meanwhile, calling the debate a "decisive win" is definitely overstating the case, as last night was the first time that this left-leaning voter saw any hint of life in John Kerry.  He may have had a good debate, but he still has some ground to cover before he can start doing his victory dance, the Kerry shuffle.  That said, I think Kerry seemed confident, knew what he was talking about (mostly) and was cool under pressure.  Bush, on the other hand, seemed nervous, fumbly, and like he didn't have a damn clue.  And most pathetic of all, he seemed defensive and always returned to the "flip flopper" argument, even though Kerry successfully countered it.  For the first time since I have been able to vote I feel pretty good about the democratic nominee for president.  Of course, it's all relative.

Maybe you readers and other dTheatre folks can ring in here.

  Debate transcript! [ comment on this story | comments (37) ]
Reader Discussions:
 Right on Kerry!   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 1, 2004 12:41 PM

I believe that Kerry definitely had the more effective way of speaking. Whereas Mr. Bush did not. Bush had his sudden pauses where I'd question myself on where his argument was going.  Kerry has won this debate in my eyes. Bush was not put together enough. Neither of them are presidential material. The both of them flip flop, however, I believe I  stand on Kerry's side of the market now after seeing the debate.

 Debate this.   > reply 
Posted by Jack (jack@dtheatre.com) on October 1, 2004 1:11 PM

John Kerry: Bush is doing a bad job in Iraq. He sucks. I could do better.
G. W. Bush: You don't [pause/akward glare] know what your talking [pause/squint] about and you're sending the wrong message to everyone.


Repeat that about 10 times, drill it into the ground and that's pretty much the debate in a nutshell.

In my opinion Kerry was quite a bit more articulate then ol'dubya but I think Bush held his case pretty well regardless of how repetitive it sounded. Bush also managed to pronouce proliferation and artificial right.

The highlight for me was when Bush started talking about putting a leash on his daughters. You have no idea how many peverse fantasies of mine that satisfied.

 RE: Debate this.   > reply 
Posted by Charley (charley@dtheatre.com) on October 1, 2004 2:38 PM

I don't buy the whole "sending the wrong message" argument.  When Bush said that, it was almost like saying, "Yes, the way I took us to war was wrong, but we shouldn't be telling people that!"

And yes, Bush gets points for speaking the language, but that's a good example of a shifted baseline (to use the wonk terminology).  Where are we in this country when I'm praising the president for something that should be a given?

 ohhh...you know!   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 1, 2004 8:55 PM

kerry is a dog poop on a stick...but at least that's better than bush being a cow poop on a stick. dog poop on a stick is better because it is stiffer and not all oogly and smooshy, sliding in whatever direction the terrain is tilted at.  and i don't even think that cow poop can really cling on to a stick.  what a mess.  dog poop on stick! dog poop on stick! dog poop on stick!

 RE: Debate this.   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 1, 2004 8:58 PM

wonk?  oh yeah...wonk.

 RE: ohhh...you know!   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 3:18 AM

John Kerry: "President Bush is slow"

George W. Bush: "Something said. Not good..."

 RE: Debate this.   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 3:20 AM

He speaks so well!

 RE: ohhh...you know!   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 10:17 AM

Wow, you've got a weird way of looking at things. :)

 Fuck them all   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 11:03 AM

I think Kerry won the debate and I am a Bush supporter but im still voting for Bush just because he even though stupid he has a strong opinion and he is not a weak prez like Kerry would  be if he won, he is a  Flip Flopper and he make campaign Ideas he cant keep, he is just a puppet for the Demo's to get Bush out of the white house.

 RE: ohhh...you know!   > reply 
Posted by Jack (jack@dtheatre.com) on October 2, 2004 12:36 PM

I think it is a brilliant and relatable way of looking things. I think I finally know who to vote for. Thank you my good sir. Thank you!

 Evaluation of the Debate   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 2:04 PM

I clearly felt that Kerry was much the superior speaker and debater. He certainly answered the question some folks have had about whether or not he could be presidential! He came across strong and informed while Bush looked uneasy, fumbled, grimaced and at times gave stuttered answers. I believe Kerry won decisively!

 RE: Evaluation of the Debate   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 4:59 PM

But don't you think if Kerry became President he would just be crazy all the time saying stuff like "All-righty then!" and "Somebody ssstop me!"

 RE: Fuck them all   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 7:07 PM

I totally agree.  Kerry changes opinions as politics change.  Yeah Kerry won that debate, but George Bush holds his ground and keeps his positions on things strong and clear!  Go Bush.

 Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by seekerofknowledge (seekerofknowledge@usa.com) on October 2, 2004 7:17 PM

I will concede that John Kerry won this debate....but honestly which would you rather have?  A president that is straightforward honest and who stands his ground no matter what...or... a president that is a smooth talker and changes his opinions as politics change??  I'll take honest and steadfast over coward any day!  I just do not trust John Kerry and hell give Bush a break, he's president twenty-four hours a day, worrying over our (American's) safety, while Kerry on the other had only has to worry about his manicures and how much money his wife's ketchup business is making.  I think Bush is entitled to a bad night.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by Charley (charley@dtheatre.com) on October 2, 2004 7:46 PM

Morally correct?  Please.

And I wish that people could get away from the media buzz labels for these guys.  ALL Politicians change their tune for their constituents--or, if they don't, they should.  That is why we elect them.  We don't want someone who is not willing to listen to the people.

But, if we must, why not do some reading and CLICK HERE to see where Bush has done a little backtracking himself.  (Contains a link to Kerry's top ten flip flops as well).  Also, note this article.  Um, and this one.  And, for good measure, here you go.

Personally, I fault neither candidate for changing his mind, but I thought it might be useful to point out that all the people walking around going "Kerry is a flip flopper, Kerry is a flip flopper" only know half the story and seem to not care about finding out the rest.  If you want Bush to be President again, terrific.  But don't hide behind the "flip flopper" defense because it is very, very thin.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 2, 2004 7:57 PM

AMEN, buddy!!  I think style points went to kerry alright, but he is the biggest liberal in American History to run for the highest office!!  His words are about as trustworthy as a snake, seeing that he cozied up to jane Fonda (Hanoi Jane after the 4 short months he spent time over there thinking up lies about our soldiers - he and his wife (who supports terrorists with $millions of dollars, by the way - which is TREASON), should both be kicked out of this country to live in Europe where they never get it "right"!!  (always "LEFT" - get it!!)

 comments on bush and kerry debate   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 3, 2004 1:23 AM

I thought they both made a few errors in some of the things they spoke about. I might be one of the few who liked Bush's answers and comments on what Kerry had to say. Yes, he was getting a little annoyed at times but as I heard Kerry took a few shots at him and he fired back. I was glad I watched it and look forward to the next one. I still am unsure of my vote. I'll wait to see if either one can sway me in a different direction.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 3, 2004 6:04 AM

But it takes a man to admit when he's wrong.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 3, 2004 5:29 PM

What about Bush's statements about not joining the International Court?  That sounded a lot like the words of a coward who knows he'd be tried and convicted.

The penalty for treason is DEATH BY HANGING.  Bush did not have the CIA traitor hanged, which, in turn, is TREASON.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by seekerofknowledge (seekerofknowledge@usa.com) on October 3, 2004 6:32 PM

And good leader to stand strong in the front of everything.  I value the fact that Bush stood his ground and hasn't wavered.  I have friends in Iraq, and it just makes me angry when Kerry or anyone lessens thier sacrifice by saying going to Iraq was a 'mistake'.  Maybe Bush didn't make his decisions to the best of his abilities, but at least he's stood by them, when I said Bush was morally correct, I meant it.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by seekerofknowledge (seekerofknowledge@usa.com) on October 3, 2004 6:40 PM

I have a pin that I continually wear, you know what it says?  Hanoi John, and it's the truth, he was cozied up to Jane Fonda.  In the debate Kerry kept living up his 'military experiences', for some reason I just don't understand how he can sleep at night when he uses his military service as a recommendation to the American people to vote for him, when he might or might not have lied about his service.  Not to mention the fact that he threw away his medals.... over the white house fence, I suppose he thought he was just getting a head start in moving into the white house by sending some of his personal effects there.  No such luck, the American people will realize that honesty is the best policy.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by seekerofknowledge (seekerofknowledge@usa.com) on October 3, 2004 6:50 PM

Well if you will not take my 'semi-mature' reason for my mistrust and dislike of Kerry, well then take this one.  Kerry looks like a weasel, has a face I do not trust and I take feminine intuition very seriously, it has gotten me out of alot of potentially dangerous situations.  My intuition is telling me not to trust Kerry.  Of course, who wins presidency is not a 'potentially dangerous' situation for me, but I have always relied on my feminine intuition and I will continue to.  It's alot more reliable and trustworthy than most things in this world.

 RE: comments on bush and kerry debate   > reply 
Posted by seekerofknowledge (seekerofknowledge@usa.com) on October 3, 2004 6:55 PM

I am really glad you see it that way, was it just me or was the commentator's questions a little easier on Kerry??  I mean that one question directed at Bush about Kerry!  Bush handled it nicely but I must say that question really surprised me.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 4, 2004 5:49 AM

There's no way anyone can say that Iraq is a better place today than it was before we went in.

 Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 5, 2004 7:26 PM

I am not watching because of my annoying siblings who care nothing of politics and would rather *turns to the T.V.* 'That's So Raven', how was/is the debate? Who is the far better speaker? Who do you all believe won this debate at all?

 RE: ohhh...you know!   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 5, 2004 7:29 PM

I think I'd rather dog poop on a stick thankyou. Cow poop is a total mess.

Translation: I think I'd rather Kerry as the United States president thankyou. Bush is a total mess.

 RE: Fuck them all   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 5, 2004 7:32 PM

Haven't you people caught on? Each puppet will flip flop now and then. Kerry's done it, now Bush is at it.

I say fuck 'em all too. I won't vote. I don't want to have a thing to do with this fucking country as is, my job's been sent to an alien in the mid-east.

 RE: Evaluation of the Debate   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 5, 2004 7:33 PM

No.

 RE: Politically correct or Morally Correct?   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 5, 2004 7:36 PM

Bush resembles a drunken monkey. Don't ya think?

 RE: Evaluation of the Debate   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 6, 2004 9:47 AM

I don't think actors should ever become President.

 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 6, 2004 9:49 AM

Why can we only vote for one of these two pricks?

 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 6, 2004 12:03 PM

Because it's ALL about the elephant and the donkey.

Democrats and Republicans are America's two major picks. Ohter than the two, there are third parties. They don't matter. Green, independent, all they do is interfere with the equal amount of voting.  Useless votes go to them, they will clearly never win.

 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 6, 2004 12:05 PM

Chaney totally kicked Edwards ass. Edwards was shaking like something spooked him!

 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 6, 2004 3:49 PM

Look Chaney won the debate, why the hell do the polls state different?

I've just come to sum up that even many republicans don't favour Chaney, so they voted in for Edwards like complete idiots.

What is wrong with America these days? Chaney did better than expected, Edwards was the more unput together man. It sure does piss me off.



 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 7, 2004 11:14 AM

What's wrong with America? For one the fact that you believe that you somehow are the only free country in the world and that everyone else lives under some kind of opressive regieme. And this from an Austrailian.

 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 7, 2004 12:09 PM

I love Australians! I'm not the one asked a question of America.

I am American, and I am so sick of this country my self. I've read up on articles stating that we are the world's empire, pu-leeeze. I so don't agree. I might be movin' to Autralia.

 RE: Vice Presidential Debate:   > reply 
Posted by A random shemp (No Email) on October 8, 2004 7:40 AM

Fuck U pricks, Austria suks ass, USA roks!!


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